To Big Dave

Dave, you were asking how this all came up ... here at last is some of that gurgling discussion:

Comments are following from Garnet Gurlz's Zingers, Wednesday, June 17 , Israel's Rights vs. "Cast Out the Bondwoman" ?

"In recent days, we've learned that Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu has agreed to a limited Palestinian state. (I myself was taken aback somewhat when I read this, as Mr. Netanyahu has been repeatedly described as 'hawkish'... [Read the whole article HERE] "

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June 27, 2009 4:05 PM MooPig_Wisdom said... [in comments]
"Which seems to have arrived..."
Ya' think???

"..there may be more time than we think, and it may be that events transpire in a manner other than what we have heretofore believed, or thought..."
Ya' suppose??

..." and since what they stood for was old Covenant, and the physical Promised Land description resides in old Covenant 'territory' language...",
[...]
At this point in your essay I am asking myself... "Has anyone ever asked the question: 'Why do we still today live side by side with third world tribal people?'" [mostly asking this because for instance -- evangelizing Spaniards intervening with those 3rd worlds destroyed them entirely .. with sexually transmutations of a mass destruction level event...] It would be better to never contact those folks... just provide clinics or something...

"dispensationalism... as reducing the Gospel of the grace of God in Christ to an ideology of empire and militarism. It rejects the teachings of Christian Zionism where they facilitate such action and attitude."

My understanding of 'Dispensational' [more or less] it is a method of understanding historical happenings.. good or bad. It sort of objectifies our path to 'Salvation.'.. no? as in what you wrote: "...We are urged to pursue the 'healing of the nations' through the 'gospel of universal love, redemption and reconciliation taught by Jesus Christ.'"

Finished Reading: As usual -- excellent writing and I am third world next to your pen-sive self...

I have two ideas in my head in the back files of the back forty:
1) Jesus is at this very moment a 'anticipatory' groom, he is to return to be married... and in Hebrew tradition, a groom never knows when he will be sent by His Father to go collect his Bride.. so the tension has Jesus chomping at His bit... so to speak.
2) As I look about I equate "end times" as not any end to anything... God is eternal... no? So, how can we expect end times? Are we able to make this decision in our present circumstance, when we cannot even decide on a reasonable timeline? ...; I prefer to look at God's Nature... almost every form of life, goes through transformation, transfiguration, or metamorphosis in its travail toward "meaning and hope.." So too we go? So we are changed too... and placed in New Jerusalem?
3) [did I say two? sorry] And when God the Father Almighty "chose" the Hebrews, my understanding is that is because Hebrews were an obnoxious rabble of rastafarian, self-willed, trouble makers, and Hedonist complainers... though hardworking, that "if God could organize and turn this rabble group to Him... then all the people of earth shall find their way back to Him; ABBA...
4) [ibid] and only when all the peoples of earth have heard the Good News of Jesus Christ, then shall He return... as a Groom that is.
Holy Cow -- who rattled my cage?

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June 28, 2009 10:48 AM Christina replied... [in comments]
In response to my words preceding "Ya' suppose??" -

Having no proof whatsoever, I've pretty much always felt that the 'Rapture' concept may not be the way things go down. Two close Christian friends from my past, w/o me ever mentioning this, both said the same thing. And, on TV, Arnold Murray of Shepherd's Chapel, Ark. expressed such belief,years back. So...that one verse, about being 'caught up' has morphed into a whole culture practically. (But of course, I do not know the truth for sure.)

Re/your 3rd.comment - somewhere around here I have a book abt Columbus, the New World, etc. & that point was made, how disease was brought to these lands. Which had never occurred to me b4.

As to your two (4!) final comments -
#1 - what a way to see Jesus now! This also would never have occurred to me.

#2 - 'end times' - one of the two above-mentioned friends told me that he believed that 'end times' refers to the actual end of the influence of law. Grace will reign. I am right there with that one! (You can see why satan would fight so hard to keep law in all forms operative.)

#3 - "I prefer to look at God's Nature..." Keepin' our eyes on Jesus...the only way to fly!

"So we are changed too... and placed in New Jerusalem?"
Patrick, we become New Jerusalem.
(Rev.21:2, 9-10))

From Garnet Girl

Patrick, I don't usually 'Forward", but I got this email 2day, & since I just mentioned Abraham in my email 2 u last nite...GG

----- Original Message -----
From: Bill Patchett
To: undisclosed-recipients
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 7:03 AM
Subject: We have crossed over, now let's hold on!

(Galatians 3:29) And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.

This amazing passage defines and says that all true believers in the Messiah are "Abraham’s seed and heirs according to God’s promise". Abraham was known as the first Hebrew – actually, “one who crosses over!”

Before he crossed over into the promised land, we know from the scriptures that Abraham lived in a extremely idolatrous society {just like it is in todays world and growing worse} His own earthly father was an idol worshiper. (Joshua 24:2)

But one noteworthy day, a call came to Abraham, a call from the Most High God, The Lord spoke and he “crossed over” from idolatrous polytheism into a personal knowledge of the one true God. So after leaving his past behind, he entered a new life of spiritual truth and holiness and a new land of promise; a profound transformation and change, and for us, a beautiful picture of our own “crossing over” into the new life in the Lord.

He was looking for that city of light were there will be no more heart ache, no more pain, no worries, no hunger, only peace and joy in the Holy Ghost. Oh what a glorious day that will be. He believed in that promise and praise God [that] I do too!

As we look at the story of Abraham, we see that his life was not free of obstacles and troubles {just as our lives are not} once he reached his destination in Caanan? No it was not! It was not pie in the sky! Here are a few important facts about his life: he felt forced to go into Egypt to escape a famine, where his wife, Sarah, was held captive in Pharaoh's harem for an unrevealed amount of time; after being set free, Sarah continued barren until old age; then, Abraham was required by his own deep loyalty, to rescue his worldly nephew Lot and his family, risking his own life and the lives of his men; again he was tested.

When taking and following Sarah's advice, Abraham conceived a son with Hagar, whom he deeply loved but was compelled to send him into the desert with his Egyptian wife who was the boy's mother. And of course, he probably faced the greatest test of faith when God asked Abraham to sacrifice the son of promise, Isaac, Sarah's only son, for whom they both had waited all their lives! What testing this man had, but in the end he still, "Believed God for the promise."

I find it very interesting that we know nothing of Abraham's life trials before he crossed over into Caanan? Only after he crossed over do we read of the continuous testing and trails of faith that following one after another. This man was really tested. Testings of this great man of faith and because of those tests Abraham is considered the “father” of faith. (Romans 4:16)

We are face with many problems in this world today. The loss of jobs, no money to pay our monthly bills, the price of gas sky high, less food on the table, false leaders in the government and some even behind the pulpit. Through it all we are called to bear our crosses daily, and also to respond with faith to whatever may come our way. And, praise God when we do, we also will be known as those who have "crossed over" and overcame every obstacle and trial of faith...having held firm to every great promise of God!

In this day, more than ever, as we face many hardships in our personal lives and we are seeing our country go backwards because of the leadership, a leadership that does not put their faith in God. Our faith must be in the Lord!

Through many dangers, toils and snares we as God's people have already come and he has upheld us and was with us and always will be with us.

In closing, let us be like Abraham and keep our eyes on the promise.